Curse

Tachyon · Jun 14, 2006, 07:48 PM // 19:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stockholm

hmmmmmm macro + GW read EULA

What do you mean?

I've just read the EULA on the Guild Wars site and I didn't see anything about using keyboard/mouse based macro's in the game. Infact, the word 'macro' isn't even mentioned in the EULA!

Stockholm · Jun 14, 2006, 08:07 PM // 20:07

"7. OFFICIAL SERVICE

You agree not to use any hardware or software, including but not limited to third party tools, or any other method of support which may in any way influence or advantage your use of the Service which is not authorized by NC Interactive, including but not limited to the use of ‘bots' and/or any other method by which the Service may be played automatically without human input. You acknowledge that you do not have the right to create, publish, distribute, create derivative works from or use any software programs, utilities, applications, emulators or tools derived from or created for Guild Wars, except that you may use the Software to the extent expressly permitted by this Agreement"

That covers Macros

Linda Heartilly · Jun 14, 2006, 08:09 PM // 20:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stockholm

There is to many gaming keyboards on the market for them to start adding support for all of them.
plus there is more inportant issues that need's addressing.
/notsigned

Most unfortunately you seem to forget two things.

1) How many gaming keyboards have an LCD display? Not many... Oh, and while we're at it, how many of those that have an LCD were versatilly designed to be capable of pretty much anything as long as a community could provide the necessary applet, contrarily to other LCD's being limited to only a few predefined options forever? Actually I forgot myself, remind me please, does it leave 1 or 2?

2) The time it'll take them is negligible. I quote myself from the GuildWars.GameAmp forums:

Quote:

It's already possible, in fact I already have a fully operational version here that displays health, energy, experience and gold.
I just don't use it because it violates point 'C' in section 3 of the EULA by reading the required values from your RAM.

All ANet has to do is make it so that the game provides this (or other) data to the LCD applet on request.

The only thing they have to do is make the game respond to certain calls and provide data upon those calls, data which they already have at hand.

They don't have to actually write the applet or anything, hell I'll do that myself!
Then I can give my own look, feel and layout to it aswell.

Tarun · Jun 14, 2006, 08:19 PM // 20:19

/signed

sumasage · Jun 14, 2006, 08:54 PM // 20:54

i would like this but i think there are better things to implements like build manager, increase storage space, auction house, etc... and like some one mention earlier, how often do you look at keyboard when playing? also it is not that bad to press H and click the title tab. Dont mean to flame or anything...just my 2 cents

Tachyon · Jun 15, 2006, 02:14 AM // 02:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stockholm

"7. OFFICIAL SERVICE

You agree not to use any hardware or software, including but not limited to third party tools, or any other method of support which may in any way influence or advantage your use of the Service which is not authorized by NC Interactive, including but not limited to the use of ‘bots' and/or any other method by which the Service may be played automatically without human input. You acknowledge that you do not have the right to create, publish, distribute, create derivative works from or use any software programs, utilities, applications, emulators or tools derived from or created for Guild Wars, except that you may use the Software to the extent expressly permitted by this Agreement"

That covers Macros

I'm afraid it doesn't! Where does it state that I can't use a macro on my keyboard or mouse?

It quite plainly states that you can't use anything "derived from or created for Guild Wars"! My keyboard and mouse weren't created for Guild Wars and certainly weren't derived from it, so therefore they don't fall under the EULA!

If you go aong with your train of thought, then you're saying that everyone using a keyboard and mouse that can be programmed with macros, and that's the majority of gaming mice and keyboards these day's, is breaking the EULA.

Linda Heartilly · Jun 15, 2006, 10:29 AM // 10:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Azagoth

I'm afraid it doesn't! Where does it state that I can't use a macro on my keyboard or mouse?

It quite plainly states that you can't use anything "derived from or created for Guild Wars"! My keyboard and mouse weren't created for Guild Wars and certainly weren't derived from it, so therefore they don't fall under the EULA!

If you go aong with your train of thought, then you're saying that everyone using a keyboard and mouse that can be programmed with macros, and that's the majority of gaming mice and keyboards these day's, is breaking the EULA.

It does say you you can't use macros actually, the only problem is that Stockholm underlined the wrong part, so here's the quote again:

Quote:

7. OFFICIAL SERVICE

Guild Wars is designed for official play only as offered through the Service by NCsoft at the Web Site. You agree to play Guild Wars only as offered by NCsoft at the Web Site and not through any other means. You further agree not to access, create or provide any other means through which Guild Wars may be played by others, as through server emulators. You agree not to use any hardware or software, including but not limited to third party tools, or any other method of support which may in any way influence or advantage your use of the Service which is not authorised by NCsoft, including but not limited to the use of ‘bots’ and/or any other method by which the Service may be played automatically without human input. You acknowledge that you do not have the right to create, publish, distribute, create derivative works from or use any software programs, utilities, applications, emulators or tools derived from or created for Guild Wars, except that you may use the Software to the extent expressly permitted by this Agreement. You may not take any action which imposes an unreasonable or disproportionately large load on our infrastructure. You may not sell or auction any Guild Wars Accounts, characters, items, coin or copyrighted material, nor may you assist others in doing so.

As for you saying that anyone using such a keyboard would violate the EULA according to his train of thought, I don't think you quite understand the EULA.

First of all it's the software in this case, the actual G-keys on the keyboard aren't directly involved, it's the software that runs your predefined actions upon receival of the according G-key's scancode - the code transmitted from the keyboard to your motherboard when a key gets pressed.

So, that said, it also ONLY violates the EULA IF you actually use it to run code (which can be anything, keystrokes in this case) inside Guild Wars.

And it works this way with anything the EULA prohibits.
I have macro keys programmed, I have an LCD applet that reads data from certain memory addresses used by Guild Wars to store it's valuable to then it display it on my keyboard, etc... there's more I got here that potentially violates the EULA but no need to list everything.

Now to the point though.

Do I violate the EULA?
No, I don't, by having it on my HDD I do not violate the EULA, I only do if I actually use it.

handle · Jun 18, 2006, 12:02 AM // 00:02

/signed X2 accounts :P

Enko · Jun 19, 2006, 08:27 AM // 08:27

Quote:

7. OFFICIAL SERVICE

Guild Wars is designed for official play only as offered through the Service by NCsoft at the Web Site. You agree to play Guild Wars only as offered by NCsoft at the Web Site and not through any other means. You further agree not to access, create or provide any other means through which Guild Wars may be played by others, as through server emulators. You agree not to use any hardware or software, including but not limited to third party tools, or any other method of support which may in any way influence or advantage your use of the Service which is not authorised by NCsoft, including but not limited to the use of ‘bots’ and/or any other method by which the Service may be played automatically without human input. You acknowledge that you do not have the right to create, publish, distribute, create derivative works from or use any software programs, utilities, applications, emulators or tools derived from or created for Guild Wars, except that you may use the Software to the extent expressly permitted by this Agreement. You may not take any action which imposes an unreasonable or disproportionately large load on our infrastructure. You may not sell or auction any Guild Wars Accounts, characters, items, coin or copyrighted material, nor may you assist others in doing so.

the G15 still requires human input for macros. and just adding support for the LCD screen would be nice. having your health, energy, chat, money, etc wouldn't really give you an advantage since it just puts it in a different place.

as far as i know, the main reason why the G15 doesn't work with Guild Wars is because it accesses the guild wars info in the ram and the protection that Anet has on Guild Wars detects this and will ban you for it.

Kaguya · Jun 19, 2006, 09:00 AM // 09:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Enko

the G15 still requires human input for macros.

Quote:

Originally Posted by EULA

including but not limited to the use of ‘bots’ and/or any other method by which the Service may be played automatically without human input.

It covers human input macros as well.

Zui · Jun 19, 2006, 09:21 AM // 09:21

The EULA is vauge - it's supposed to be vauge. There's also a place in it where it mentions any sort of exploits. ANET has not banned anyone from using any exploit "bug" to my knowlege. The VoD Gate bug, and click-to pass bug in GvG are prime examples.

The fact of the matter is it can mean whatever ANET wants it to mean(or at least be argued as such), that is it's purpose. Heck, it could be even said that by using a mouse with a higher polling rate or higher DPI that it 'advantages your use of the service.' We can't expect everyone to use equal computers, monitors, keyboards, mice, and heck, even microphones for voice chat, can we? It could be construed as such.

However, there are two key phrases in the agreement, one is "...without human imput...," the other is "...derived from or created for Guild Wars...." I certainly know that my Mouse and Keyboard were designed for my operating system, not for my keyboard, and so were all the macro functions in the software for my mouse and keyboard. Guild Wars was designed for windows too? Was it not?

The fact is, regardless of what it says, as long as it is left vauge, or in this case hyper-technical, they can essentialy tie it up in court(if it even goes that far) until you run out of money. They win.

Linda Heartilly · Jun 19, 2006, 10:00 AM // 10:00

The EULA isn't vague, people just don't try hard enough to understand it.

The G15 is said to stil require human input for it's macro's, only the first time when recording really, hitting the G-key aftewards is just the activation of the macro.

Let's get something very clear here.
Imagine that I recorded a macro (with delays included) that optimally activates skills 4, 3 and 7 in sequence.
Without much detail this macro just looks as follows:

Code:

Keystroke "4"
Delay
Keystroke "3"
Delay
Keystroke 7

Now let's have a look at if and if so when it violates the EULA.

It doesn't violate the EULA that I would have this configured.
It doesn't violate the EULA that I have a Logitech G15.
It doesn't violate the EULA that this macro would be stored on my HDD.
It doesn't violate the EULA that I would press the G-key.
It doesn't violate the EULA that the keyboard would then send the according scancode to my motherboard.
It doesn't violate the EULA that the Logitech Profiler would runs the macro.

But... IT WOULD violate the EULA that this macro (basically just a sequence of predefined actions) runs [u]inside the focussed and activated GW window[/B].

That is in this particular case, however the violation ofcourse occurs whenever a macro runs in the game, with the game as it's target window -regardless of whether or not it's focussed and / or activated.

rancidbob · Jun 20, 2006, 05:28 PM // 17:28

/signed

in connection with the whole macro issue, I contacted NCSoft about this, here is the whole case

Discussion Thread
Response (Donovan) 04/25/2006 10:59 AM
Hello Charles,

No problem at all. Thats why we are here!

Feel free to contact us again if you need anything else.

Regards,
Guild Wars Technical Support

Customer (Charles De Wit) 04/25/2006 10:56 AM
Thanks that answers the question, and DAMN you guys are quick, thank you very much for the quick response.

Response (Donovan) 04/25/2006 10:14 AM
Hello Charles,

The macros people get banned for are programs they run to fully automate characters. The 'macro' keys on the G15 would just basically be buttons you press instead of pressing something on the screen. You should have no problems with using the keyboard.

Feel free to contact us again if you have any other questions however.

Regards,
Guild Wars Technical Support

Customer (Charles De Wit) 04/25/2006 09:26 AM
I have recently purchased a Logitech G15 Keyboard, which has macro keys down the left hand side. After reading that some MMO's band people for using macros, I have been afraid to use these macro keys in Guild Wars.
Is it acceptable to use the macro keys to set up emotes and use the built in Guild Wars profile options??
Many Thanks
Charles De Wit

Vecte · Jun 20, 2006, 11:17 PM // 23:17

/signed

michaelo123 · Jun 20, 2006, 11:20 PM // 23:20

What do you mean by lcd the little lights were it sys num lock etc etc???

FIDGAF · Jun 21, 2006, 12:21 PM // 12:21

I have a G15 and I'm not really sure what you would want the game to display on it. I use the Timer and Countdown functions (newest drivers & software updates) for my Guild so that we know how long we have to finisih a mission to get "Masters".

If they can find a GOOD use for it I'd be happy but I think I'd still switch it over to Timer Mode during certain instances. If they build support for that where it would do something like that automatically it would be cool, but it's really not that hard to press the button.

/Signed

Lonesamurai · Jun 21, 2006, 03:40 PM // 15:40

Wolfclaw keyboard here...

Perfect gaming board -

/not signed

1nfamouz · Jun 21, 2006, 08:34 PM // 20:34

/notsigned #care @gamesurge.net

Linda Heartilly · Jun 22, 2006, 10:16 AM // 10:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lonesamurai

Wolfclaw keyboard here...

Perfect gaming board -

/not signed

You're implying that you don't sign this just because you have a different keyboard which you personally like more which is errr... unmeasurably pathatic at the least. :-)

causation · Jun 23, 2006, 06:22 PM // 18:22

I have this keyboard, and bought it mainly for the G-keys. ANet should allow there use.
/signed.